Wednesday, September 17, 2008

Can we quote you on your positive Delphi and/or C++Builder 2009 experience?

Would you like to see your quote on our web page? If so, put your awesome quote, your name, title and company name as a comment to this blog post. Tell us in a short and sweet sentence what you think about Delphi 2009 and/or C++Builder 2009.

Thanks!

36 comments:

  1. what about: "I'm still waiting on my SA subscription download"

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  2. "Slightly less documentation is wrong or missing!" :D

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  3. Delphi 2009 is nothing but Delphi 2007 a little bit improved (and in a breaking, non-compatible DCU release). We expected a lot more in 1.5 years.

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  4. John --

    With all due respect, I'd call Anonyomous Methods, Generics, revamped COM and DataSnap, Build Configurations, Ribbon Controls and other VCL updates more than "a little bit improved".

    Nick

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  5. Already? First, for it to be realistic, I'll need to

    a) wait for the first service release, and
    b) work on a real project with it.

    OH, and

    c) wait for the price here in Europe to be realistic. I want the English version, not the German one. But it's still the high price here.

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  6. By breaking string compatibility with previous versions, you have made your product unusable for me and many others.
    But you can quote me if you want to .....

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  7. Honestly Nick, I think in the day to day win32 programming world, I can't think of any reasons for using anonymous methods or generics. Datasnap is also mainly a neat toy, not important in real world client server db applications. We already have dbexpress and ibexpress to cover our needs in that area. Ribbon controls and improved vcl components? Too little too late. We bought devexpress components some while ago. They are cheap enough and more than cover what we need. Unicode? We only sell our products locally. Although being able to name components with æ, ø and å is kind of fun, for a while.

    So what is left? Improved documentation? One can only wish for such things I guess.

    Fix the docs. Quit playing around with all these toy features.

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  8. Delphi 2009 (or D2007 with Anonyomous Methods and Generics) is not worth the update. Ribbons can be done with a few third party controls. Configurable builds can be done even better with FinalBuilder. The VCL improvements are a joke. And, installing still has problems.

    I was told by one user to stop complaining, Delphi is still the best development tool available. Yes, I agree. I'm only making remarks that this Release does not meet the standards worthy of a new Release. It's meets the standard of an incremental update. CodeGear is riding on Unicode to sell this Release. I will not be purchasing any release until there is a real serious update coming from CodeGear. Don't bother sending out your 10 mile survey this time, I'm not going to waste my time filling it out for a group that is not seriously committed to advancing the product.

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  9. I think the problem here is that you expect excitement for things that people except from you.

    Let me point to Herzberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_factor_theory). Most of those new features (having good collections, having unicode) are in my opinion Hygiene Factors. People expect those things to work properly, but they don't get excited when they do. Same thing with having a good help. Maybe even 64-Bit compiler and cross-platform-compilation are not motivators: They just represent, how our industry changes but won't get people excited.

    However, it is still important to do those things as not doing them gives people a reason NOT to use Delphi. Really new features (anonymous functions, better integration of multi-core, more functional style, garbage collection) might excite people, but once those basic issues are not fixed there is no use in doing them.

    Arg I wrote too much here, sorry. My point is: You are heading in the right direction, the improvements are visible (to me) and valuable. But I think a version that really excites people is still one or two years ahead.

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  10. Actually in my case I'm not looking for some new toys or things to get me excited, (as the one user perfectly puts it, since I agree, a lot of things are just toy enhancements), I'm looking for old annoyances to get fixed or resolved. Improving the product, you know the basic stuff, annoyances that have been there for years. CodeGear comes out with these partial enhancements, and then does not improve upon them in the next release. Here would be examples of things that could be done that would have made this a better release (again my opinion):

    1. A better project manager in the Welcome section. It not that it's bad, but it's very poor when it comes to managing it. And for god’s sakes, export/import project manager file, so it can save or migrated. It's located in a hidden folder in documents and settings.

    2. A migration tool for migrating user settings, lib paths, installed components to the next release. I guess I could cut and paste registry settings. But I don't know if that will corrupt the new installation. So, it gets done manually.

    3. An easier macro system (not the current template system). The new template system is OK I guess, after you finally figure it out. I personally don't use it, I had to wrote my own. Why not develop an editor/manager that simplifies the creation and a manager to build the template collection.

    4. I know because of Unicode, this broke the DCU's. But, after that break the DCU's on each 3rd release. Please.

    I could probably come up with a few dozen more. But I don't want to take up the whole site.

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  11. An unicoded delphi enabled is what i am waiting for quite a long time!!!

    frankly speaking, generic is ok but anonymous method is not required at all since it will make my code difficult to read and less structured.

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  12. @Anders E. Andersen: My experience with generics as implemented in C#/.Net is that they are a great help. As soon as some sort of list/collection is needed, the day-do-day experience is definitely better because you can concentrate on the problem, not fiddling with casting and types.

    So now having them in Delphi for Win32, too, actually does excite me very much, but to understand the advantages I can only recommend to try the C# ones yourself.

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  13. Sorry, but I have not positive words. After 1.5 years of "development" we get a release without any significant and demanded features (except Unicode, but this is not usefull for everybody). Where is the promissed VCL improvment? I remember the topic with name "Delphi=VCL". Do you really think, that developers will buy all demanded features (crypto, pack, visual controls, regular expressions) from 3rd parties?

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  14. "Do you really think, that developers will buy all demanded features (crypto, pack, visual controls, regular expressions) from 3rd parties?"
    Yes, I'm doing so... that's not a problem. You can't do wrong doing so... It's more easier to work with specialized component thant standards one...
    And for those bashing D2009 !, I don't understand you. [Personal attack censored]

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  15. A week ago, I was waiting impatiently for D2009 trial.
    once installed (very fast!) my first action was to open and compile the ribbon demo and play a little with it...

    30 minutes later, I found myself buying the DevExpress equivalent... instead of upgrading to D2009.

    I will certainly upgrade to D2009, (generics & unicode will be useful for me) but in a few months only...(because of limited software monthly budget)

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  16. Here's a beautiful use of Anonymous Methods.

    http://www.malcolmgroves.com/blog/?p=273

    Nick

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  17. We expressed our opinions on why were not buying this upgrade and you call us Mooks??? I don't care how long Unicode took. The user was right, Delphi=VCL. There was no great improvement to the VCL. And the other user is right as well. I'm tired of having to purchase basic VCL to do basic operations and then the company is gone, and all that is left is .DCU's for older versions. CodeGear should make a list of VCL's that they would add to each release, and add them. They did it with PNGImage, why stop there. I noticed there's another link after this one where the Blog Master thinks he should have asked for honest feedback. I gave honest feedback.

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  18. Stephane - Please do not use my blog as a platform for personal attacks. I've edited it out.

    Brett - I'm very sorry that you were targeted like this. I truly appreciate all your honest feedback.

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  19. Seems like some people dont like Unicode, well, for me it was a must, and it will be for the rest of you one day as well I'm sure. I personally think that Delphi 2009 is the best Delphi version ever released, and all of you bashing it in here should spend some time with it before talking it down.
    In my opinion, Delphi 2009 is far more stable and faster than previous versions. Regarding the VCL updates I think it's just right, most importent things has been added. CodeGear should not add hundreds and hundreds of components to the box, since that would kill a lot of the 3:rd party component market for Delphi, which is one of the most important parts in the Delphi world.

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  20. I think of D2009 as "the shift to unicode", and moving my existing code to Unicode is surprisingly easy. CodeGear did a great job AFAICS. I hope going 64 bit will be just as easy :-)

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  21. Magnus - Thanks!

    Giel - If you'd like to be quoted, send me an email with name, company and title.

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  22. Anders : sorry but I've never wanted to use your blog for personal attacks (English isn't my mother language... that could explain it).

    To sum up, I just wanted to say that I didn't understand why people were bashing D2009 ! That those people didn't saw all the effort done to make the product Unicode ready, effort done to make a better IDE and so on...

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  23. It's not that people don't like Unicode, they just don't need it. I'm sure you do, and I can appreciate your need and happiness in getting it. And if that feature is sufficient to update, great.

    I suggested basic components to do basic things, like the PNGImage control. Some products that I have come to use over the last 13 years get abandoned along the way (usually because of updates), and it is for that reason I have slowed down my updating. I used to be an early adopter, absolutely not anymore.

    P.S. CodeGear adds features and components that were being done by other 3rd party developers already. CodeRush->Templates. BuildManager->FinalBuilder, PNGImage and I'm sure there are others. Some of these companies are still here and some are gone. But adding those features to the product only strengthens it, and allows a developer to upgrade without waiting on 20-30 other companies to do the same.

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  24. Adding to Nick's comment, here's another interesting use for anonymous methods:

    http://barrkel.blogspot.com/2008/08/anonymous-methods-in-testing-profiling.html
    http://barrkel.blogspot.com/2008/08/anonymous-methods-in-testing-profiling_31.html

    Personally, I'm curious to see how people use them with threading.

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  25. (3. An easier macro system (not the current template system). The new template system is OK I guess, after you finally figure it out. I personally don’t use it, I had to wrote my own. Why not develop an editor/manager that simplifies the creation and a manager to build the template collection.)

    I already put last year a request on QC #47897
    What i feel is needed is a better editor and some documentations what can be done in tags on templates - IMHO, of course.

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  26. Into the lion's den...

    So far, Delphi 2009 is a worthy and significant upgrade to Delphi 2007, and I intend to migrate my current projects as soon as it's practical.

    The features I'm seeing the biggest immediate impact from are Generics and Unicode, which lets me simplify a bunch of code.

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  27. Unicode is a *must* for our organization. We needed it 5 years ago, but we're ecstatic all the same to see it now. Before we adopt, we'll need to to go through a thorough investigation for viability and risk. That process has already started. As an aside, DevExpress is nearing the Beta cycle for their VCL components.

    http://tinyurl.com/53xo89

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  28. Brett Wrote:
    "It’s not that people don’t like Unicode, they just don’t need it".

    Who are "people"? you?

    I'm pretty sure Codegear has done some market research before deciding to give unicode implementation such high priority. In fact, looking at the roadmap, it seems like Codegear is very inspired by what the Delphi users need / wish for. Unicode, 64-bit compilation and improved thread handling are topics I see very high on the wish lists when looking through the old borland forums, and those features are all high up on the roadmap.

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  29. Unicode and everything else is secondary to having a stable application with an intuitive code editor. Delphi has neither so I'm not sure what one would want to be excited about. There is a reason Visual Studio is still preferred by most. CodeGear should consider writing a Delphi implementation for Eclipse.

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  30. Dear Mr. Simon H.

    There have been plenty of "people" who have been stating that their environments do not need Unicode. It's not something that would make these "people" want to update. That's the point I am making. I have made plenty of comments on this and other blogs, that I'm sure Unicode is something that plenty of "people" want, and will update to D2009 to get it. I'm happy for them. I just don't think d2009 is an update worth purchasing.

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  31. I can't see that it is CodeGears job to ship all kinds of vcl controls that would fit everyones need. They provide the foundation that 3.parties can build their components on. Yes - a nice basic vcl is a must, but I think most of us would buy new controls anyway.

    CodeGear have to focus on things that 3.parties can not, mainly the language it self, but also the IDE. They have to provide a stable and open IDE with basic functionality. 3.parties like Castalia can provide more functionality and more complex functionality.

    I think this release sounds like a good release, but we will not upgrade yet. We don't need any of the new features, and I am afraid the unicodetransition will make some trouble. I did the transition to delphi 7 and 2007 for our company, but I have asked for a vacation when we upgrade the next time...

    -Vegar

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  32. @Brett Graffin: We are expanding into far eastern markets, so Unicode comes not a moment too soon for us. Absolutely essential. But also a problem!

    Unicode raises two issues: First is porting old code, and so far most reports are positive. I have ported to new versions since Turbo Pascal 3. I've seen the same concerns expressed time and time again, so I'm not overly worried. So far, no-one has reported show-stopper problems.

    Issue Two is D2009 no longer run on Win9x/ME, but I have followed some JEDI discussions on integrating the UnicoWS.dll, so clearly there's people working on it. Good.

    Why does CodeGear not bring in more third party VCL extensions, like the PNG one. The truth is, they HAVE in the past! But the experience hasn't always been a happy one. I guess they are just being a lot more careful now.

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  33. @ Anders Andersen:
    DataSnap is not intended to Client/Server applications at all! It is for multi-tier applications. And yes, we successfully use it in real world, 24x7 database applications. DataSnap was years ahead of its time when it was developed, and is still a great framework for multi-tier development. CodeGear is right investing in DataSnap evolution! We don't want to be forced to rewrite our applications from scratch every 5 years, like Microsoft developers usually do!

    Best regards

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  34. Seems like y'all are back to where the customers with the "basic" version don't need DB access. I don't need Unicode, but I *DO* need DB couplers. What a silly packaging decision! Why not move support for Unicode (ie., internationalization) into the Architect (next above Pro) version and put DB couplers in the Pro version? sheesh! Looks like Zeos will continue to thrive.

    I think the generics and language enhancements are great. And I know how much effort must have gone into adding Unicode PLUS these enhancements. It's sad to see people reacting as if they're "no big deal".

    I'm still a bit dumbfounded by all the noise last year saying these features were dependent on .NET; yet since CG got acquired by Embarcadero, I've seen not one mention of .NET. (YAY!) But it begs the question ... what happened to the .NET dependencies?

    Back to the help issues, considering I can't find help in D2007 for stuff added since D2005 (and things going back even further), I'm hoping some more effort has been made with D2009 to make the help system a little more useful. So far, nobody has mentioned anything about the Help system here.

    Upgrading is SO DANG PAINFUL! D2006->D2007 was a breath of fresh air. The first thing I usually do after intalling an update is hit the F1 key to find info on new stuff. How many times does it come back with nothing? D2007's help is the worst I can remember. It's constantly pulling up stuff in C++ and C# even though I don't even have them installed, and asking about Delphi-specific keywords and functions brings up nothing.

    Has ANYTHING been done to improve the Help system? Other than tracking Microsoft's changes, I haven't noticed any improvements since D6. The Help system is ALWAYS the LAST thing to get improved. No, I take that back. Hasn't happened YET.

    There was a lot of noise being made at one point where some web site or something was being set up so delphi users can actually support it directly, like a wiki. What's the status of that?

    Summary: I'm eager to try out the new language features, but the lack of DB couplers in the Pro edition and absolutely no mention of any improvements in the Help system don't exactly light a fire under me as far as upgrading goes.

    (Besides, I don't remember the last time I saw any contract work requiring any experience with versions of Delphi past D7.)

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  36. i very like quotes The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. Albert Einstein

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